. >>> joining me now, civil rights leader and president of the rainbow push coalition, reverend jesse jackson. awfully glad to speak with you. you listened to president clinton. do you agree he belongs in the statues of history with gandhi, martin luther king jr. if not maybe at the top of the list? >> external persecution and the wil will, dignity. they were driven by their suffering. you define them by what they did with the pain. that is to say when mr. mandela chose to use his pain for transformation. to use his pain for reconciliation, revenge or retaliation it took him to different level. >> what was it like to be in the same room as he was. oftentimes there are leaders -- and i will say this is applied to you as well. there are some people you think they take up all the energy because there's something about them. he must have had that as well. >> well, he did have a personal magnetism. i remember the first sunday he came out of jail in cape town at south africa at city hall. he walked in the room. having been in jail for 27 years, so aware and so alert. we embraced. he recogni